We have updated the messageboard. Please re-signup to post new messages. Sorry for any inconvenience and enjoy! http://makem.com/messageboard/index.php Thu, 02 Sep 2010 12:29:17 -0400 Phorum 5.2.8 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,756,756#msg-756 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,756,756#msg-756
Are they any plans to maybe visit the Great Pacific Northwest (Seattle area, in particular)?]]> William Westwater Makem Message Board Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:00:13 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,749,749#msg-749 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,749,749#msg-749 (I was always taught to show my work.)

Who's in? Hope to see you there! (I won't be able to check this board after noon tomorrow; where we will be staying has no online access. I know.)

Friday night could be fairly inneresting on the weather front; thunderstorms may be present and vivacious. But Saturday and Sunday look to be pretty typical for IrishFest: some clouds, lots of sun and temps in the low to mid '80s.

I LOVE this time of the year! Can't wait! Yayyyy!]]> MaryG Makem Message Board Sun, 29 Aug 2010 23:00:18 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,747,747#msg-747 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,747,747#msg-747 David McD Makem Message Board Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:29:17 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,746,746#msg-746 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,746,746#msg-746
The art exhibition in Joan Clancy Gallery in celebration of the cultural legacy of the legendary Clancy brothers, Paddy, Tom, Bobby, Liam and Tommy Makem, all of whom are now deceased, is attracting much interest.

CBTM Cultural Legacy Exhibition features very personal works by three of the next generation of the Clancy clan: Orla Clancy daughter of Paddy and Mary, Blawnin and Rayleen Clancy daughters of Tom and Joan; and paintings by some of Ireland's top artists: Arthur Maderson, Bernadette Kiely, Una Sealy, Tom Climent, Ross Stewart, Mary Clancy, Katarzyna Gajewska, Andrea Jameson, Dave West, Laura Fitzgerald, John Cullinan, Paul Flynn.

Described by The Irish Times as "a great place to visit", Joan Clancy Gallery, run by Tom's widow Joan, is located 10K south of Dungarvan in Mweelahorna, An Rinn down the road from Col?iste na Rinne (Ring College) and the Cunnigar beach in the scenic Co Waterford Gaeltacht. 15k from Ardmore.

CBTM Cultural Legacy Exhibition: Until Aug 15, open 11am -5pm daily including weekends. www.joanclancygallery.com

086 813 4597 infoatjoanclancygallery.com]]> Mac Makem Message Board Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:01:48 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,743,743#msg-743 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,743,743#msg-743 jimeo Makem Message Board Sun, 01 Aug 2010 20:51:38 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,742,742#msg-742 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,742,742#msg-742 --From "The Bard of Armagh" in memory of Tommy.

And in honor of my own father if you don't mind.]]> Heather Mc Makem Message Board Sun, 01 Aug 2010 15:53:52 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,741,741#msg-741 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,741,741#msg-741
I AM the mountainy singer?
The voice of the peasant's dream,
The cry of the wind on the wooded hill,
The leap of the fish in the stream.

Quiet and love I sing?
The carn on the mountain crest,
The cailin in her lover's arms,
The child at its mother's breast.

Beauty and peace I sing?
The fire on the open hearth,
The cailleach spinning at her wheel,
The plough in the broken earth.

Travail and pain I sing?
The bride on the childing bed,
The dark man laboring at his rhymes,
The ewe in the lambing shed.

Sorrow and death I sing?
The canker come on the corn,
The fisher lost in the mountain loch,
The cry at the mouth of morn.

No other life I sing,
For I am sprung of the stock
That broke the hilly land for bread,
And built the nest in the rock!

-- Joseph Campbell]]> Mac Makem Message Board Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:48:13 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,740,740#msg-740 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,740,740#msg-740

[www.fosters.com]]]> Heather Mc Makem Message Board Sun, 01 Aug 2010 20:54:25 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,736,736#msg-736 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,736,736#msg-736
We all remember his dry humor, his tales of being a fireman in the Bronx, and his vast knowledge of historical events.

Gerry is survived by three sons, five grandchildren, one brother, and his sister-in-law Dr. Elizabeth (Betty) Conlon, who also travelled with many of us through Ireland.

A Funeral Mass was offered at St. Columba R.C. Church in Chester, NY on July 10.

A number of friends have left their thoughts and memories of Gerry on www.flynnfh.com under "Light a Candle".]]> Ed Makem Message Board Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:41:11 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,729,729#msg-729 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,729,729#msg-729
Charles Acton, The Irish Times long-time music critic, found himself at odds with some friends over his approval of the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem, prompting him to explain himself in this column. ? JOE JOYCE

LAST AUGUST I wrote an enthusiastic notice of the first Irish concert given by the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem, and as a result nearly alienated two sets of friends.

One came to the second concert on my recommendation, told me in the interval they were deeply disappointed and had rarely witnessed such an exhibition of American-style vulgarity, and they did not wait for the second half. The other pair objected strongly to the noise and nicknamed them the ?Folk-Beatles?.

The head of the first family is a distinguished scholar of Irish. I would be extremely surprised to find him singing ballads in English (or any other language) in a pub. It was no surprise to me that he had never heard of Johnson?s Motor Car before that night. I think they expected a more earnest evening of sean-n?s singing ?through the medium?, in spite of my notice plainly discussing something quite different.

Now I remain an unrepentant admirer of the work of the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem. And I am quite sure that both sets of friends came expecting to hear something quite different from what they got. But one has to judge the Clancys for what they are and not regret that they are not something else.

To many people ?our glorious heritage of traditional song? means a John McCormack singing Thomas Moore?s Oft in the Stilly Night . Anything more different from that than the Clancys would be hard to find, still using words and tunes actually found in this island. Without discussing McCormack or Moore, neither is really ?our glorious heritage of traditional song?. Nor, for the matter of that, would the Clancy Brothers want to be that either.

To many others, folk song and traditional music mean sean-n?s. So it does to me, and I would be the first to protest if the Clancy Brothers put, say, An r?ibh t? ag an gCarraig through their particular mill. But they do not. It is clear from the records in the catalogue of Tradition Records Inc., founded and owned by Pat Clancy, that they know very well indeed the difference between The Holy Ground and An r?ibh t? .

There is a continuous spectrum running through the vestiges of high bardic art in An r?ibh t? , the true Irish folk song (in its original English meaning) of D?irin De , the foreign song assimilated as S?an ?ac Donnchadha?s version of The Bonny Boy, the ideal translation of these into urban art as done by Gr?inne Yeats and Mary O?Hara.

This continuum has nothing to do with the Clancy Brothers. For it has nothing to do with the urban street ballad, the pub song, the political ballad, the songs of the ports, with folk song in the American sense. And that is just what these singers are concerned with.]]> Mac Makem Message Board Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:26:21 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,721,721#msg-721 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,721,721#msg-721
St. Barnabas Church in Mazomanie, WI, Saturday night 7/10. Somebody in this parish booking office has terrific taste in music. Not only that, but they've got a very nicely-written blurb on their website: [tinyurl.com]
(photo is on the site's home page)

Mazo is only about 60 miles from me-- a little closer even than IrishFest. But I don't know if I'll be able to go yet; as mentioned, I didn't even notice this date until a few hours ago, and I'll have to work on changing a few plans around.

But it occurred to me that some parish members, or local residents, may be checking out this very website in the coming week to learn more about the Makem&Spain Brothers. And the old advertising copywriter in me is urging me to make a special post just to talk up this band, and this gig.

So... if you're from Mazomanie, Madison, or anywhere close, and you're wondering just who these guys are: you cannot believe how stunning this opportunity is! The Makem&Spain Brothers are truly unparalleled, the world over. Nobody is doing exactly what they do, with the pedigree, natural talent and lifelong experience that they all have. Although they perform worldwide, I am familiar with their performances in Milwaukee... and they PACK the large stage they play at Irish Fest, 3 times per weekend. I've met people who come from all over the Midwest to see them play there; I'm sure there are others who travel farther.

I love music (of all kinds, but mostly rock) and have seen hundreds of performers in my lifetime. Believe me when I say that the Makem&Spain Brothers have an energy and a charisma that is a wonder to behold... and I behold it whenever I can. They all sing and play fantastically, and have an absolutely commanding stage presence. If you're not familiar with them, please listen to songs or clips however you can: Itunes, clips on Amazon or allmusic, Facebook or myspace. And go! $12 a ticket? That's nuts cheap!

I am not a friend, personal acquaintance, or business associate of either the band or St. Barnabas Parish. I just love these guys, and would love to know that they packed the place! Plus, Mazomanie is in a gorgeous part of Wisconsin, and a very scenic drive from anywhere. Hope I can go. But even more... I hope some interested people will read this and decide to go! What a wonderful summer night this will be!]]> MaryG Makem Message Board Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:14:44 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,716,716#msg-716 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,716,716#msg-716
"Nora wondered what would happen to the hoard of knowledge Michael Scully had built up over a lifetime--more than a lifetime, if you considered all the people from whom he'd gleaned bits of history over the years. He had all those incredible files, of course; but reading them wasn't the same thing as walking out with someone who could take you to the very spot where three ravens had sung over the grave of a king."

Anyway, it made me think of Tommy.

Heather]]> Heather Mc Makem Message Board Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:48:54 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,713,713#msg-713 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,713,713#msg-713 The Brothers start at at 7:30 but there is a warmup group performing at 6:00PM. Bring your own chairs, blanket, food, cooler, etc. but be there well before 6 to get a good location.
Route 206 to Mill Street and follow signs to parking (classes are in session) and shuttle.
For additional info call Judy at 973-300-3171.
This appears to be the Brothers only performance this year in the great State of New Jersey so we'll expect a big crowd.]]> Ed Makem Message Board Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:15:59 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,710,710#msg-710 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,710,710#msg-710
Tim]]> Tim Makem Message Board Sun, 13 Jun 2010 20:34:47 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,706,706#msg-706 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,706,706#msg-706
Anyway, hope to see a new resurgence of posts when the new CD comes out!


P.S. Do any old-timers of the Makem message board remember the uber-bizarre thread about amphibian shapeshifters? Those were the days, my friend :)]]> hostoftheair Makem Message Board Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:32:29 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,701,701#msg-701 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,701,701#msg-701
pj]]> PJ Makem Message Board Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:27:16 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,697,697#msg-697 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,697,697#msg-697
Hope Geordy Potter is up there with you. I don't know if they ever laid a plaque for him in Keady for holding up the momument for so long! Those were the good ol days.

Peter]]> peadar333 Makem Message Board Mon, 03 May 2010 04:21:03 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,696,696#msg-696 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,696,696#msg-696 ross Makem Message Board Sat, 08 May 2010 19:44:03 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,694,694#msg-694 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,694,694#msg-694 PJ Makem Message Board Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:50:32 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,693,693#msg-693 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,693,693#msg-693 mjkohio Makem Message Board Mon, 17 May 2010 18:15:15 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,692,692#msg-692 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,692,692#msg-692
The Gallery is located in the Los Angeles South Bay area.
The address is:
1734 East Broadway
Long Beach, CA 90802

(562) 432-7799

I can?t wait to meet you all.

Karen Klausner Chute

www.clancymakembook.com]]> Karen Makem Message Board Tue, 30 Mar 2010 01:13:31 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,686,686#msg-686 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,686,686#msg-686 Rory O'Bannion Makem Message Board Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:25:16 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,680,680#msg-680 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,680,680#msg-680
I would really like to get my hands on a fairly good LP of In The Dark Green Woods the one with the green cover. Can you help me.

Thanks,

Jerome Curran]]> Jerome Curran Makem Message Board Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:47:54 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,678,678#msg-678 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,678,678#msg-678 Terry Flanagan Makem Message Board Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:12:51 -0500 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,677,677#msg-677 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,677,677#msg-677 Your gentle ways have won me.
You bring peace and joy and laughter everywhere.
Where you go the sunshine follows,
You're a breath of spring in winter
And my heart and soul are always in your care.

Gentle Annie, Gentle Annie,
And my heart and soul
Are always in your care.

When you touch me with your fingers,
My cares and worries vanish
Like the morning dew before the rising sun,
When your eyes tell me you love me,
Then my soul is filled with wonder
And my love for you will live when life is done.

Gentle Annie, Gentle Annie,
And my love for you
Will live when life is done.

You're the flower among the flowers,
You're the birdsong in the morning,
You're the laughter of the children at their play.
You're my hope and joy and wisdom,
You're my reason just for living,
You're my treasure,
You're my very night and day.

Gentle Annie, Gentle Annie,
You're my treasure,
You're my very night and day.

When the mountains all come tumbling
And the earth has stopped its turning,
When the winds don't blow and stars refuse to shine,
When the moon has left the heavens,
And the seven seas are empty,
I will still have Gentle Annie on my mind.

Gentle Annie, Gentle Annie,
I will still have Gentle Annie on my mind.]]> Mac Makem Message Board Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:43:14 -0500 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,673,673#msg-673 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,673,673#msg-673 Rory O'Bannion Makem Message Board Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:07:34 -0400 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,670,670#msg-670 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,670,670#msg-670 Peggy Makem Message Board Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:22:43 -0500 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,668,668#msg-668 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,668,668#msg-668 cneilanbanjo Makem Message Board Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:34:05 -0500 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,665,665#msg-665 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,665,665#msg-665
A soft raspy voice said,? Karen??
?Yes.? I replied.
?Liam Clancy calling.?
?Hello Liam,? I softly said.
?I got your book and I liked it.?
?I?m glad.?

That is how my last talk with Liam began. It began so simply and was so very unexpected.
Needless to say I had wonder what he would think of my book and under the circumstances did not know if I would ever find out. I reflected after our conversation and was surprised how easy it was for us to talk to each other since it had been such a long time from our last conversation..
I told Liam that I had been wondering what he would think of the book. He said that he understood the feeling. He had felt the same while he waited to hear what people thought of his book. Liam continued in a jovial tone saying that he heard it was scandalous from Mary and Joan Clancy, Paddy and Tom?s wives. He said he had wondered what I could have possibly said. ?Then I read it. I found the book delightful.?
No other words could have sounded nicer to me.
I suppose the issue that ruffled some feathers and I suspected would be the first thing mentioned was about the money that was or wasn?t sent home from America. I was right and Liam mentioned it right off. I reminded him that I did write that the boys were struggling when they came to America and it was not my place to make judgment.
Liam told me that when he first went to the states he stayed with his brothers. He said that he had to sleep on the floor of their apartment and said there were roaches all over the place. He said that they had been very poor and when they did have enough money to send home his mother would tell them she didn?t know what to do with all.
I told Liam that I had heard all kinds of stories, but disregarded a lot of them for numerous reasons. I told him that a lot of people would tell me that they were related or knew things etc. Liam said that he heard it all the time and that if it were true then he would have had hundred?s of classmates and cousins.
I told him that I struggled over choosing the stories that I did tell and in what manner I told them. I said that ultimately I had to be true to the story.
Liam said that I gave it a good balance and that he understood about being true to the story. He agreed, as a fellow writer, and said that he had the same dilemma writing his book. He finally just ?removed himself? and told the story about a man?s life. He didn?t worry about who would be upset, but tried to keep others people?s feelings in mind. He said that certain family members had been upset with him too and said that I shouldn?t worry.
We each smiled and were pleased with the choices we had made as writers. Liam and I, at that moment, had connected at a level that few could share with us and we were now opened with our thoughts and feelings.
I told him that I had thought very hard before I wrote the book. After all 23 years had passed since I had collected the stories. I hadn?t written the book earlier, because Tom said he was going to do one. But it had never come to fruition.
?Did you read my book?? Liam asked.
?No, because I didn?t want it to cloud my version, ? I honestly told him.
Liam said that he understood. He began to tell me about a grave he found with the same name as his. Those of you who have read his book know this story. Liam then spoke of Mikis Theodorakis, who said that every man has a story that should be told because of the importance of that one man?s life.
?I wish I knew that Liam?s story,? he said in such a wanting way.
I deeply sensed his feelings and had felt that pang for a long time myself. I told him that I finally wrote the book, ?Because I didn?t want the stories to be lost.?
I could tell that with his illness he had probably had many thoughts of what would be left behind to show that he had been here. Not just the songs and craic that people would remember, but that a man, with strengths and flaws and hopes and dreams and accomplishments beyond the ?stage? existed.
Liam said, in a really sweet way, that he thought it was a wonderful treasure that my audiotapes still existed. He then asked what kind of tape recorder I had used. I told him a Realistic from Radio Shack and I could hear a little laugh from him. He then asked me if I would make him copies of the tapes.
Liam said that he wished he would have had tapes for the writing if his book. It was written all from memory he said.
He then told me that his book came out about the time that his brother Bobby was sick. Bobby had called him up after having read the book. ?. . . and he talked forever. Bobby said he could die happy now. Bobby said that they would now always be remembered, because of the book. That they wouldn?t be forgotten.?
I thought that sweet and sad and wonderful.
Then out of the clear blue sky Liam said, ? Can I ask you about publishing it yourself?? I gave him an overview of the process and said that it was a learning curve, but wasn?t really hard, just time consuming.
Liam shared is his experiences with his book. How the book had been rejected by many companies before it was finally picked-up by Double Day. How it sat with them for 4 years, before they finally published it. He told me the amount they gave him for the book, but that the payment came with lots of fights over content, etc. He told me how Double Day refused to issue a paperback version. He told me that he had recently tried to order a thousand copies from them. He initially was told that it wouldn?t be a problem. Liam said that he never received them, nor had they ever returned any of his phone calls looking to see where the books were and when they would arrive.
I told him that I had heard the same kind of horror stories and chose to set up my own publishing company to do the book. I wasn?t going to compromise or be forced into a sensationalized version for sales.
Liam advised me to be wary of reviewers. He said that a reviewer had said that The mountain of Woman was a take off of Frank McCourt?s, Angela?s Ashes. He told me that he hadn?t even read it. He said that he had been a friend to McCourt and his brother Malachi.
Liam told me that the book had started out as an off Broadway ?ad-lib? play. He said that every night the real Angela, McCourt?s mother would run out of the audience yelling that it was all lies. Liam told me that McCourt took what the audience laughed at the most and used it in the book. That most of the book wasn?t true. A renowned, Pulitzer Prize winning book, not true, how cool was that to know.
Liam was now in storytelling mode and I just listened. I felt like a child at the foot of the best storyteller in the world.
Liam told me about the Yellow Bittern that he was editing at the time. He spoke of all the old films he had ?in the attic covered with dust and cobwebs and spiders the size of rats.? I laughed.
At one point we began talking of Jack Makem, Tommy?s brother and how I had wished I had had a video camera with me when I met him because he was such a wonderful character.
Liam said that Jack, his mother Sarah and father Peter would visit the Clancys on occasion. ?My mother could never understand Sarah?s accent. My mom would just
put on a big toothy grin with her dentures. I would have to translate. One time Sarah was saying that she was starving and wanted a sandwich. Once mom understood, she quickly went to make some food.?
Liam then started to laugh and began telling me a story about the time the whole Clancy family, kids and all, took the Makems down to Tramore, (a beach town) with picnic baskets filled with sandwiches. ?Emphasis on the sand,? he said.
?The guys were all sitting out in the hot sun with handkerchiefs tied at the corners to cover their heads. They all had hangovers. Peter especially had a bad one. I remember his bugged out eyes.? Liam laughed. ?They were so buggy. I?ll never forget. My brother Tom said to him that it was an old town with ancient things to see and that they should take a walk to see them. Now you know the town,? Liam said to me. ?There was nothing but a building with a long arched tunnel that led to a pub. Tom asked Peter what he would have and Peter ordered several drinks.?
It seemed that they drinks didn?t help Peter?s headache. Then Tom told Peter that there was something new called Alka-Seltzer and gave him two tablets. Time passed and Liam said that he came looking for the two of them. He asked Tom where Peter was. Tom said he had been in the bathroom for long time. Liam went looking for him. I can?t begin to tell the story like Liam. This is when I truly wished I had taped our conversation.
?I found poor Peter with foam coming out of his mouth and nose and ears. He had put the tablets in his mouth and had been trying to swallow them with water from the sink.?
Liam and I laughed for quite awhile.
Liam said that my story of Peter and the hidden bottles just before his death was priceless. He said he also liked the story of Sarah?s last days.
He started getting hoarse and I finally felt comfortable to ask him how his health really was. He said that he was off oxygen and feeling better. He said that he would never get better, but that he was glad to be off the oxygen. Liam said it would be hard to travel anymore. Trying to get oxygen to places was a problem. He realized his traveling days were pretty much over, but confessed that he never really liked it anyway.
Then I was knocked or a loop.
Liam said, ?You?ve inspired me to write again. Like you said, never look back and say, I wonder, what if.?
I said, ?I?m glad Liam, because you inspired me with your, never going half way.?
?You know I only wrote the first 20 some years,? he said to me.
?And we need to hear about the rest,? I said with encouragement.
Prior to reading my book, I think, with is age and health, he had pretty much decided not to pursue finishing writing the about the other fifty years of his life. With the bad time he had with a publishing company, I think he figured that he would be dead before it got to the bookshelves and the venture would die with him.
I told him that I would help in anyway I could. He gave me his email and said to stay in touch. Over the months before his death I would send him information on the steps toward publishing the book himself.

I send this tonight to all of you, it being one year to the day I started my book. And I just now feel comfortable in sharing this all with you. I kept my conversation in confidence with Liam. I only share this now because so many of you wonder about a second book from Liam. And many of you told me you wondered about his intentions and spirit during his illness. I can only tell you that for a time, I know he wanted to put to pen to paper and write the stories that made up the rest of his life. I don?t know how many pages there were at the end, but I believe he tired really hard to give the stories of this one man?s life to us all.
Liam will not be forgotten. Nor will Tommy, Paddy, Tom or Bobby. They can all rest well.

With a sad heart,
Karen]]> Karen Makem Message Board Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:01:20 -0500 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,663,663#msg-663 http://makem.com/messageboard/read.php?3,663,663#msg-663 PJ Makem Message Board Sun, 06 Jun 2010 22:59:16 -0400